Episode 6: Using Embodied Carbon to Select More Sustainable Products with Diana Smiciklas from Perkins&Will
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Architects and designers are prioritizing embodied carbon reductions in buildings. In this episode, Tad and Julianna sit down with Diana Smiciklas, a Sustainability Advisor at Perkins&Will, to discuss why embodied carbon reduction is so important to Perkins&Will, how Perkins&Will is implementing embodied carbon reductions into interiors and architectural projects, whether or not their clients are embracing these initiatives, how manufacturers can help the A&D community find the products they are looking for, and the importance of third-party certifications in achieving embodied carbon reductions.
pERKINS&WILL IS A STRONG ADVOCATE FOR REDUCING EMBODIED CARBON IN BUILDINGS, WHY IS THIS SO IMPORTANT TO PERKINS&WILL?
“Energy reductions have been a major component in the building industry for years. We started to get better with energy reductions and we moved closer to a net zero energy building, but we realized that the only carbon associated with the building at that point would be from the embodied carbon of the building materials. We asked ourselves, '‘now that we have maximized our energy reductions, what can we do about the remaining carbon in buildings?’ Building materials account for 11% of the total carbon emitted in the world. The reason we care about this so much is because architects, designers, and consultants have this responsibility to do something about the things we have control over. Looking into embodied carbon, starting the research, and trying to figure out what we can do to reduce those carbon values is incredibly important. At Perkins&Will, we started this process two years ago and now I think we are on a really good track with identifying strategies, being advocates, and making sure our clients and consultants know about it.”
How are you implementing embodied carbon reductions into the interiors and architectural projects you are working on?
“First we start with architectural, and we know that concrete and steel are two of the products with the biggest impacts in terms of embodied carbon. We decided to start there because we know we can get the maximum benefit there. When it comes to the structure, we have initial conversations with our structural engineers which has been super important and started the research phase. After having these initial conversations, we realized that switching out Portland Cement to Portland Limestone Cement provides and automatic 10% reduction in embodied carbon. Not everyone has access to Portland Limestone Cement so what we do is we put a cap on the embodied carbon associate with different MPA ratings and we allow the concrete supplier to figure out how they’re going to make those reductions. When it comes to things like steel, anything that was considered a hot-rolled shape can be made using Electric Arc Furnaces as opposed to a Basic Oxygen Furnace. There's a lot of embodied carbon savings by using the Electric Arc Furnaces because it can come from renewable energy sources, and there's potential for higher recycled content. So there's a lot of opportunity and just bringing those things to light with our engineers and with our contractors, has been the best first step. Because that way, at least they know that they have to start looking out for these things. So we're in a bit of an infancy in terms of making those implementations. We've done the research, but we haven't seen a project through in terms of embodied carbon because architectural projects take many, many years, and this is something that we only started a couple of years ago. So it'll be interesting to see how this plays out in terms of the submittal process and when construction actually starts. We also started to meet with our design teams from the get-go, and figure out what different façade materials our architects are looking into for the building. So for example, for one of our projects, there were seven different façade types that our designers wanted to look at. So we did an initial embodied carbon study to see what the embodied carbon would be associated with each of those types, and that really helped drive the conversation of what materials to use and helps influence the design. Embodied carbon is just one portion of a façade, and when you're looking at the materials we still have to make sure the performance is optimal. We have to make sure that there's no design implications by using something of a lower embodied carbon. Just by doing these studies in initial phases has really helped educate our design teams and lead them down a path of lower embodied carbon. In terms of interiors, we're just starting to do embodied carbon reductions in interiors. The way that we're going about it is first identifying the materials that have the maximum quantity within the space. For example, that could be something like flooring, gypsum wallboard, or acoustic tiles. Then from there, figuring out which manufacturers offer a lower embodied carbon product. So you're now comparing products on a per manufacturer basis to see if you can make reductions by specifying this product over that product. As opposed to an architectural project where it's more about the design and the specifications, this is more so about specific materials and products that we're selecting. These are things that we've identified as being successful ways to reduce embodied carbon.”
Are your clients embracing or pushing against this initiative?
“I feel like when it comes to our clients, a lot of them don't know that they have this responsibility. It's not until we go through the process of showing how much of an energy reduction operationally that we can achieve on this building, that embodied carbon now becomes a larger piece of the overall carbon pie. I think that really triggers their interest in thinking ‘how do we make reductions knowing that our building materials contribute this much carbon into the atmosphere?’ For some of our projects, we're starting to do these initial Life Cycle Assessments (LCA) to show our clients that this is associated with the building that we're proposing. Then we compare it to a baseline to show if we make these reductions, this is how much of an embodied carbon savings we can achieve for this project. We talk about it in terms of a responsibility to reduce carbon, because they're building an entirely new building and this is something that people are talking about. Their competitors are talking about it, and the design industry is talking about it. I think that really motivates them to start looking at embodied carbon as essentially a performance element of their building. We get a lot of great responses from our clients in terms of looking into embodied carbon.”
WHAT CAN MANUFACTURERS DO TO HELP YOU understand the embodied carbon of THE PRODUCTS YOU’RE LOOKING FOR?
“What we require most from manufacturers and what we ask for first is an Environmental Product Declaration (EPD). EPDs pretty much give the full environmental scope of the product. What we look for within those EPDs is the embodied carbon associated with the product. There are other impact categories like acidification and eutrophication that we also look into to make sure they're not going above and beyond what our baseline would be, but embodied carbon is what we look at when we're doing these reductions. Ensuring that the products that we're looking at have this transparency information is super important. What we're finding is that for the most part we can get that information, but a lot of the times our manufacturers just don't have this documentation available because I don't know that they've ever been asked for it. We are coming across some situations where we're asking for information and the reply we get back is ‘we literally never been asked this before.’ In those cases, I think the fact that we're starting these discussions with a wide range of suppliers is really important because somebody has to initiate the conversation. I think the design and architecture industry and the building industry in general is just moving in that direction anyways. So bringing it to light for a lot of people is super important. I think it'll be another couple of years before everyone has this information available. So far things have been great in terms of people being able to provide us with the carbon information. It's been pretty great to be honest.”
HOW IMPORTANT ARE THIRD-PARTY CERTIFICATIONS TO THE ACHIEVEMENT OF THESE embodied carbon REDUCTIONS?
“It's super important because I'm not sure what platforms allow manufacturers to gather their own information and publish it, but most things that I look at are third party certified. Third-party certification just provides a level of confidence in knowing that the values they are indicating are true to what's actually happening. Knowing that somebody has third-party verified their data, makes me as a Sustainability Advisor, more confident in stating that this is the embodied carbon associated with this product and this is why we're choosing this product over that product. It just makes our job so much easier when we're recommending products to our clients.”
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ABOUT DIANA Smiciklas
Diana diligently develops and implements strategies for high-performance and sustainable design while also focusing on wellbeing. She provides guidance and coordination for clients pursuing third-party certification systems including LEED, WELL, Fitwel, RELi, and the Toronto Green Standard. By collaborating on a range of projects throughout her career, Diana has developed a strong research-based understanding of the impact of materiality on the health and wellness of people, as well as the planet.
Diana relishes opportunities to influence a building’s composition, material choices, and operations. She believes it is the responsibility of us architects, designers, and influencers of the built-environment to create spaces that enhance user-experiences while reducing the impact that space has on human health and the natural environment.
